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What's wrong with tenements? [NB Scot here and tenement pretty much means "block of flats"]


Scotland is the exception to the rule that "tenement" is used to refer to the most substandard and overcrowded multi occupancy housing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenement


Apologies, was blissfully unaware of that usage.

I live in the "large rooms, high ceilings and ornamental details" kind of Scottish tenement here in Edinburgh - only major downside being the impossibility of charging a electric car/hybrid.

NB And yes, we do have a garden although we're on the 2nd/3rd floors... ;-)


Tenement has a specific meaning, at least in the context of Manhattan, of extremely crowded immigrant housing especially in the late 19th and early 20th century. e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_East_Side_Tenement_Museu...


Ok, and what's wrong with that, if the market demands it?


Slumlords tended to not maintain the buildings well, and poor air circulation during hot New York summers meant that people would facilitate disease transmission a lot more readily.


Oh, hey, that's a really good answer, thanks.


Also fire codes.


Nothing at all is wrong with tenements. The East Village and LES are full of old tenement apartments that rent upwards of $2500-$3000/month.


They've also all been converted, after the first and second Tenement House Acts were passed in the early 20th century, making old-style tenements illegal.

In a true tenement, you'd easily have a flat with no windows and no bathroom. You'd share a toilet with several other flats and your shower would be in your kitchen, with no door to separate it from the rest of the kitchen. If there were a fire, you might not have any access to a fire escape other than the front door.

I used to live in a converted tenement in Lower Manhattan. It was incredibly clear that the entire apartment building had been rearranged twice to comply with the new laws. (This is why dumbell style apartments exist). I certainly would never want to live in an actual tenement. There's a very good reason they're illegal now.


What you described sounds like a modern dorm room or hostel, except without window requirements.


Ah but a dorm room has a window requirement and indoor plumbing. Doesn't sound like much but it is.

A New York tenement at its worst has windows on the front and back face only, which are the main room of the appartments since they're the only one to get any light. The building covers the maximum buildable surface of the lot. It is rather narrow and very long. The bedrooms are in the middle of the building with no windows. You don't need light. There's no bathrooms in the building, you use a latrine in the back of the lot.

Most of them got renovated to at least have internal windows, a sink (and therefore plumbing) in the kitchen and toilets on every floor after the code was improved.

Here's a sample floor plan that's representative of early tenements: https://www.nygeo.org/tenement.jpg

Later you got the Dumbbell tenements with windows to the outside in every bed room and, often, an actual bathroom. They've often been renovated to be quite nice today but originally it was about minimizing cost and maximizing rent revenue extraction from the working poor.


Going of on a tangent here:

My current apartment has similar a railroad layout from your picture. I absolutely love it. I keep the "parlor" area neat and clean (which is where front door is). When I have people over, they usually don't come further then that.

Like the monarchs of old, the deeper I allow you in my residence, the more I favor you. From the parlor, a door leads to the kitchen. Most people don't have business there, so I can leave dishes in the sink and what not. And behind kitchen, a door leads into the holiest of holiest, the bedroom. You're a lucky devil if you made it all this way, nudge nudge.

My apartment before this had a more contemporary layout, was even a little bigger, with open kitchen-living room, bedroom/bathroom organized around central hallway. It kind of stunk. Everything sort of was the same, it was difficult to compartmentalize, so when I ended up cleaning I ended up doing the entire thing. There was no progression, no differences in "formality", so the entire thing gave itself away the moment you walked in.

It must be fiendishly hard to design commodious living spaces within a small square footage, but I've become a fan of those shotgun layouts, it works well IMO!


Funnily, the Montreal take on the railroad apartments usually has a narrow hallway going to the Kitchen which is the deepest room.

The bathroom will be "in the kitchen" often as a closet with only a bathtub and toilet, no sink. It's not uncommon for the kitchen sink to be on the same wall as the bathroom and this is the only place with plumbing in the flat (a retrofit, same with electricity and gas.)

Living room will often be right before the kitchen and a "double room" with a large archway separating the two. Meanwhile the front room will often also be a pair of double rooms and normally they're bedrooms with a curtain for privacy or a built up wall.

Usually you only see this layout in older rental units where "renovated" is code for replacing the 1950s gas furnace with baseboard heaters halving heating costs, painting and 100 amp electrical service with breakers instead of 15-30 amp service with a fusebox (my brother's old place had only two 15 amps fuses for the whole apartment. If the fridge's compressor kicked in while the microwave was cooking, pop!)


Right. Because what you see in Jacob Riis' photos for example look just like a modern dorm room in the US. [1] /s

[1] http://youthvoices.net/node/20103


Link was down for me, assume he's talking about this photo (Five Cents a Spot): https://www.moma.org/learn/moma_learning/jacob-august-riis-l...


Works for me but, yes, that's one of his more famous photos.


1) Not far from some dorms I've seen - but yes, most now have A/C, and all have a sink and a window.

2) Better than living under a bridge, no?


You'd share a toilet with several other flats

This was still quite common in the 1960's in the East Village. I wonder if those buildings have been renovated since, or if those conditions still exist today?


I know at least one person who still lived in an apartment like the that in Greenwich Village in 2012, but yes, the vast majority of those have since been renovated.




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