> Only the case if all goods are the result of automated factories, which isn't true.
And which physical goods production can't be automated? Probably 99% can. There are first farms that are already fully automated, so whole chain along with transportation can be automated in future. You have any examples of whole industries that can't be automated? Because I can't think of any that can't, it's only matter of getting cheap technology to do that.
> And if it were, you wouldn't need anyone to buy anything - whatever you might want can be made by your factories
This is false, you don't have infinite amount of resources and for sure you don't have enough money and space to build factories for "whatever you might want".
I disagree. The aviation industry is pretty far ahead of the game in terms of automation - you book and check in online these days, much of a pilots work is automated, baggage handling is semi automated, yet the industry still needs loads of staff. You can automate 90% of a job, but in the end there is some stuff its just easier to get a human to do, or more to oversee.
But in any case - A hand-made item? Which apparently adds worth..
> have any examples of whole industries that can't be automated?
depends what you mean - at what technology level?
Can modelling be automated? maybe. Can barista-ing be automated? Maybe. Can programming? To some degree..
> you don't have infinite amount of resources
luckily, most needs are finite.
> you don't have enough money and space to build factories
The premise is everything you want being automated. If space/land is not automated, that breaks the premise. So there is something you'd pay people to obtain - land rights. A short transfer of all land to the elites later, and you have enough space for anything.
This is just a marketing gimmick (in case of products that we have technology to produce also by machines) in the times we live in to make you pay more for a product.
> Why just physical goods?
Because you can automate production of almost all physical goods. A lot of services also, but to certain degree, simple tasks only, state space is just too big in case of more complex services for today technology.
> depends what you mean - at what technology level?
Can modelling be automated? maybe. Can barista-ing be automated? Maybe. Can programming? To some degree..
That's why I was not writing about services but physical goods because in case of services it hugely depends, some can't be automated with our current understanding of the world around us.
> luckily, most needs are finite.
This is false.
'The world has enough for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed.' - Gandhi
You need to take humans into the equation. Make everything for free because it's automated and you will see 7 billion orders for Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. You have enough factories to make those in 10 years? 20 years? 100 years? Take physics into equation and amount of factories/transportation for all the resources and parts to make those products, just those products, what about other things? This will not scale on earth.
> So there is something you'd pay people to obtain - land rights.
Most people on earth do not own any land at all.
> A short transfer of all land to the elites later, and you have enough space for anything.
Read history, this would end like it always do, elites that would try that would be eliminated and replaced with new elites from proletariat. Remember that elites are protected by police and law only because other people allow that, not because this is something written in stone. Earth was already ruled by kings, they owned most of the lands, look how it ended.
as are entire industries. Human life is ultimately meaningless, so all human pursuits are too. Restricting this argument to utilitarian good begs the question - to what aim? Aesthetic good exist at the top of any manufacturing chain.
> Because you can automate production of almost all physical goods
But, wasn't the argument a "what if" scenario in which no-one could get jobs? So physical goods are all automated - just means jobs exist in other areas now.
> - Gandhi
I don't rate the guy, but it sounds like he's talking about the worlds current resources, not future resources.
> You have enough factories to make those in 10 years?
everything is automated, remember? So the factories are made by factory-factories...
> Read history
I don't buy this kind of prediction based on historical analysis.
> elites are protected by police
police have always been human - will this be true in the future?
> Earth was already ruled by kings, they owned most of the lands, look how it ended.
> You want to talk about philosophy ? Meaning of life?
No, since I just stated there is none.
I disagree this goes beyond the topic - If you want to disregard things as "meaningless", anything can ultimately be disregarded. Even basics (food shelter etc) serve no purpose that to preserve life - and what is the meaning in that? All human pursuit is meaningless, as such, all things are for their own sake. So, what are your assumptions about what does, and does not have worth?
> Amount of ignorance in this comment is staggering
ok. I don't care what he meant, because the fact he said it is meaningless. Why not argue for yourself than appealing to authority?
If I "don't get it", it's because you decided to communicate with a vague quote.
> I still see power, so who cares what they are called? Modern elites are far more powerful.
Ah, and another "who cares". You will always see in some form power because this is how world model looks like and how society works, the difference is type of power and it's influence on society, but to know that you would need to know history.
> "no one to buy this things from you when everyone will automate everything, then most people would have no job" --
Do you see difference between what you wrote in last comment which is "no-one could get jobs" and what I wrote which is "MOST PEOPLE would have no job" ?
Do you see the difference? "no-one" vs "most" - you see it? Or you "don't care" and it's "meaningless" ? Or there is no difference because it would mean you are wrong?
I need to waste my time to show things like that?
> since I said I didn't care for historical analysis
And another "I didn't care"..
> Historicism has is generally not seen as valuable or valid anymore; if you disagree the burden is on you to demonstrate otherwise.
> You claim I'm ignorant, then provide nothing more.
I don't need to really look far. Read this article from yesterday, it's historical analysis that proves your ignorance:
Based on this analysis you could predict exact effects of globalism that we see now in economy. But maybe it's also "meaningless" ? Because I am "appealing to another authority" ? Or you "don't care" ? Or because this would prove you are an ignorant.
"arrogance" ? Call it whatever you want, I call things how I see them, you can't stand raw critic about yourself? Then you have problems.
I don't waste my time to argue with ignorants that write things like "I don't care what he meant, because the fact he said it is meaningless" when they do not understand what someone else is writing to them or they don't have any anti-arguments. Your attitude to authority only shows how big your ego is. I know how this discussion will end, with more "I don't care" and "meaningless" instead of real arguments. I've seen it many times. So why I should waste my time on it? I have really better things to do than arguing with ignorants that claim history is irrelevant because they don't know it, at the same time they ate all the brains and write not to "appeal to authority".
You need to know past to understand present and plan for future.
You know why WWII happened? You know why World Trade Organization exist? You know why law is written the way it is? You need to know history to know that. But you probably know better and it's all "meaningless".
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - that's why historical analysis is so important and that's why you are ignorant.
You will probably understand that I've just finished writing/reading in this thread for good and this was my last message to you. I've explained why.
Your posts would be a lot shorter if you stated what you thought, instead of speculating of what I think.
> And another "I didn't care"..
So? What's your point? I'm repeating myself because you don't seem to get it. "I don't care for historical analysis" means I don't value it. I won't start to value it, just because you keep claiming it has value.
> it's historical analysis that proves your ignorance
How? What do you mean by "proves"? Can you show me the parts proving the Stanford paragraph wrong?
> But maybe it's also "meaningless"
again, why not spend more time describing it's meaning, than speculating on what I think.
> Because I am "appealing to another authority" ?
Yes,feel like it, that you are appealing to the Guardian. You point to an entire article as proof. I pointed to a specific paragraph, instead of quoting the whole thing which I believe characterises my opinion well. If you disagree, please state what you disagree with.
> I call things how I see them
You don't have to say anything that pops into you mind, if there are no reasons for them that you can think of. If you have reasons, provide those instead.
> can't stand raw critic about yourself? Then you have problems
It's called personal attack/ad-hom, and it's generally considered bad form. No one like nonconstructive criticism, especially that motivated by spite.
> when they do not understand what someone else is writing to them
I don't care because the burden to provide an argument is on you. The burden is not on me to read the works of Gandi to find one, when you brought it up.
> Your attitude to authority only shows how big your ego is
What does this mean? Is Gandi an "authority"?
> I know how this discussion will end, with more "I don't care" and "meaningless" instead of real arguments.
The argument is it doesn't matter what Gandi says, if the meaning isn't communicated. This is a nuanced argument. Some of the things you've written here suggest to me that English isn't your first language, so maybe you are not fully understanding what I write?
> ignorants that claim history is irrelevant because they don't know it
I never claimed that "history is irrelevant because [I] don't know it".
> You know why law is written the way it is? You need to know history to know that.
Laws are written by individuals, often motivated by specific events. Specific events can be correlated with events preceding them. But these kind of stories are less useful in predicting the future, which is what Historicism is.
> "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - that's why historical analysis is so important and that's why you are ignorant.
Are quotes proof too? You know quotes aren't even consistent?
And which physical goods production can't be automated? Probably 99% can. There are first farms that are already fully automated, so whole chain along with transportation can be automated in future. You have any examples of whole industries that can't be automated? Because I can't think of any that can't, it's only matter of getting cheap technology to do that.
> And if it were, you wouldn't need anyone to buy anything - whatever you might want can be made by your factories
This is false, you don't have infinite amount of resources and for sure you don't have enough money and space to build factories for "whatever you might want".