I'd say that a bad marriage is a zero-sum game, but a good marriage results in both sides ending up better than they started.

I don't know you or your wife and can't presume to tell you how or whether to fix the situation (assuming it could be), but the lesson I learned long ago regarding relationships is to honestly evaluate yourself and define your capabilities and needs (not wants, but the things you absolutely require) and to either have your partner do the same (or less optimally evaluate them yourself as best you can). If you have a need that cannot be realistically satisfied by the _current_ capabilities of your partner, or vice versa, then end the relationship as quickly as you can. Attempting to have a relationship with someone who does not satisfy your needs, or you cannot satisfy theirs, is a doomed effort and the longer you remain in the relationship the worse and more hostile it will become. Walk away as friends before you build up resentments and end up leaving as enemies.

This is great advice thank you.

You're enabling your wife's depression. Stay married. Just stop enabling her. Be loving and respectful, but stop helping her. In the short run she'll likely flip out on you. It will take a few months to get results. Don't tell her what you're doing, just do it. Don't be tough with her, don't tell her what to do, just go back to being happy and taking care of yourself.

Tried that. Believe me. I appreciate the advice though.

I'm so sorry. Why did you go back to covering for her?

Because love is irrational? Because I'm an idiot? Because when we seperated she got herself into a horrible amount of trouble which to me proved that she can't make it in the world without someone looking out for her. Because how am I going to move on and be happy while she's suffering even if its by her own hand? And because even if I could live without her and I can-- our daughter, cannot.

That's rough. If it's any consolation, I was in the same boat. Hard not to enable when there are small people to look out for. I've only stopped enabling recently, but it seems to be working so far. I hope you can find something that works for you and your kid.

> Things are so bad that I have to make sure she eats.

That definitely sounds like depression.

I think I know what the answer is going to be, but have you approached her about seeing a therapist?

Thousands of times. I have tried everything. She lies to the counselors/therapists and herself I suspect. She has a deep need to protect this behavior.

I have suffered from depression (and still do sometimes) so believe me when I say: unless you're a trained professional, it's not your job to be her therapist. If she actively sabotages her therapy and her therapists can't figure that out, either her therapists are bad at their jobs or she's not yet in a place where she accepts that she needs help.

For me it took a long time to acknowledge that it's not just my personality, it's a mental health issue and that there are people I could talk to about it (and that it needs to be an outsider). But most importantly I had to come to this realisation myself. You need to be willing to cooperate and to understand that this is a problem you want help solving.

Sometimes the risk of losing the person you love is what it takes to make that step. But sometimes people need even more than that.

Only trained lifeguards should try to save drowning victims, lest they pull their would-be rescuers in after themselves. Godspeed on your third attempt.

> Successful

Does she show motivation 9-5? If so there might be an answer that's more elaborate than "broad chemical imbalance," and a solution a lot more emotionally tractable than a divorce.

I don't know since I can't observe her at work but by her reviews are good. She's just getting her career started (in her early 30s). So time will tell.

But yes, there's another dimension to it. In her mind she classifies things as helpless and not helpless, and has incredible compassion for helpless things but very little for everything else. I do not understand this.

I am like your wife, a chronic procrastinator. It is almost like my mind gets stuck in a local minima that is hard to get out of. Tasks just seem harder than they are (before I start).

Some things that help me: exercise, meditation, minimalism, routine (kaizen). These help to get me out of the procrastination zone.

A small question though: how does she increase chores compared to if you were living alone? is she very messy, or is it just annoying that you are doing the work for two people?

Hi, thanks for your reply. When we lived alone we lived like animals. I did every chore I could but, one can only do so much. I was supporting the family, every night, I came home, cooked dinner and did chores until I literally would collapse. Weekends, Sat I'd do yard work, laundry, pay bills, random repairs to the house, cars etc. Sunday morning, hit up Costco, grocery store, get home, do more laundry, if I'm lucky, an hour in the gym. Suddenly its 1:00am.

Ironically, living alone was much easier. The wife unit has good intentions but doesn't recognize her own limitations-- which are severe. When I lived alone I could socialize. I had a cleaning service, my wife didn't' like this for some reason. She insisted I fire them but didn't pick up the slack despite being unemployed at the time. I had fewer dishes and shopping to do, less wear and tear on the house. One less car to do maintenance on. I could go out with friends We had to move in with my parents--after two years of three to 5 hours sleep, my brain was cooked.

To answer your question... She is beyond messy. Clothes were strewn next to the clothes hamper. I bought her a trashcan with an automatic lid and set it 9 inches from where she sat most of the day. She stacked her trash on the trash can.

You cant make this stuff up. I love her to death which is admittedly a dumb thing to do. But, this self-protection circuit in my brain kicks in and says "This individual will drag you to hell, don't let her."

Two days ago I sent her this text, because we can't talk anymore, "I’m at my breaking point. Again. 10hth time in our marriage at least? I’d like to discuss our options at this point."

She's put in a lot of effort since then (made dinner for the first time in a year). But, it's all an illusion. As soon as I decide I can live in the marriage, she'll revert to her pitiful state.

It takes two to tango.

Nobody mentioned this so I'll do the honors: instead of looking at saving your wife, look at saving yourself, starting with 'what part me, made this at all possible?'

Folks who get taken advantage of almost universally have low self esteem - don't worry about trying to help every leech that's sucking the blood off of you - try moving out of the swamp.

The swamp is low self esteem, the leeches are people who also have low self esteem and engage in self destructive behaviour, dragging others down with them.

Sounds like my first wife. Second wife is so much better with lessons learned from first.