Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

From the CBC terms of use: "ANY USE, REPRODUCTION, ALTERATION, MODIFICATION, PUBLIC PERFORMANCE OR DISPLAY, UPLOADING OR POSTING ONTO THE INTERNET, TRANSMISSION, REDISTRIBUTION OR OTHER EXPLOITATION OF THE WEBSITE OR OF ANY CONTENT, WHETHER IN WHOLE OR IN PART, OTHER THAN EXPRESSLY SET OUT HEREIN, IS PROHIBITED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMISSION OF CBC/Radio Canada."

-http://www.cbc.ca/aboutcbc/discover/termsofuse.html#ownershi...



Does it say anything about what web browsers you can use to access the site?


Exactly... I can already access any of these streams through URLs they themselves publish. How is this app any different than packaging a prettily wrapped webkit with bookmarks for these streams on its default homepage? Wouldn't the fact that these URLs exist invalidate any claims CBC may have with respect to transmission/streaming? What should be doen when the corporate entity itself facilitates infringement on its own terms?


Actually, even a "prettily wrapped webkit with bookmarks for these streams on its default homepage" itself would be bordering unauthorised exploitation of their content, especially if you charged for it. This might sound weird at first but keep in mind that just because two things are technically very similar it doesn't mean that they are legally similar.


I remember back in the day when web browsers actually cost money, my ISP would sell you Netscape preconfigured to use their website as the browser's homepage. Being a Canadian ISP, they provided helpful links to the CBC website on their default homepage.

From a legal standpoint, how is that any different at all? Would you say that my ISP was also exploiting CBC's content at the time?


No, they were charging you for the browser. If they sold you a browser that could only view CBC content, CBC might have had beef. (Though remember that back then a lot of legal standards that have now been created didn't exist.) If they sold you a browser with homepage set to CBC by default and extensively marketed that product based on the CBC homepage, CBC might have had beef. If they iframed CBC on their own homepage, CBC might have had beef.

Despite some providers' (including CBC's) fanciful claims to the contrary, I don't think or recall any court decision giving control over incoming links to parties being linked to. (Compare to decisions, however controversial, regarding outgoing links, .torrent links being the classic case.)


The original version was marketed under the CBC brand. While that looked like a pretty clear cut violation, the author has gone to lengths to remove those references.

Now the product is just a web browser whose home page provides hyperlinks to the CBC website, just like my ISP did back in the day. When you buy the app, you are buying the web browser, not the CBC content. The CBC content is only accessible via hyperlinks which you, the user, have to specifically activate.

I get where you are coming from, but it is not clear where the line is drawn. If I create a web browser with a built-in search field that forwards the browser to Google, like many browsers do these days, am I liable to Google in the same way? What if I create an HTML form with a search field that points towards Google? What if I move the HTML form URL into an <a> tag?


This is what's wrong with law makers. There's a perfectly good mechanism to prevent unauthorized downloading, it's called a password. Giving a file away, like giving a pamphlet away on the street corner, implicitly gives the right to view the file. Anything else is ridiculous, absolutely unworkable, and will make for a ton of loopholes in the future.

HTML/etc is specifically designed to be device and program independent. At every turn developers are cautioned that users may receive only part of the content, that it may not render as expected, etc. There's even a mechanism for checking which client program is being used if you care. As they claim to...

If some downloading of the file is prohibited, they - not the users, should be in trouble. They know of the issue and aren't taking even the most basic of security steps. They're clearly all incompetent, from tech to manager to lawyer - all literally incapable of doing their jobs.

As a Canadian I want their wages refunded. And an apology to the app writer. We pay for CBC either way, the more people who hear it the more worthwhile those tax dollars are.


This is similar to how the NFL limits reproduction of its broadcasts. Yes, it's legal to receive the broadcast using any TV but it's still illegal to take that stream and rebroadcast it over the net or some other platform.


But the App itself is in the position of the TV. The stream is 'broadcasting' from cbc.ca and the App is receiving it. Nowhere does he claim that he built a proxy that then 'rebroadcasts' the stream to his App.


No but my guess is that it wouldn't be too hard for the CBC's lawyers to say what he is doing is encouraging "Public performance" without "Express written permission"


This could lead to a complete ban on things like userscripts or custom web browsers. For example, I have a Fluid.app instance configured to access Gmail. It isn't in a traditional browser. Would that too fall under this scenario? How about a scripted version for accessing Netflix?

Hulu already blocked things like boxee based in their custom browser. A better solution for CBC would be I just block to app's access by the user agent.

(I'm not saying you are wrong - just taking it to the extreme)


What if I wrote a radio app, and someone provided me the URL of CBC's stream. I've never visited their website; how can I possibly be bound by their terms of service? A contract requires agreement and contractual intent -- can't exist where I haven't even seen the terms. I'm also not creating any copies of their work, so copyright law doesn't come into play. Where's the legal basis in stopping my app?

[I am not the OP, just creating a scenario]


> I'm also not creating any copies of their work.

To listen to the content they are streaming on their website, you need to make a copy of it. Now, you could argue that, by creating a URL which will stream that content to any program that asks for it, they have implicitly given everyone permission to copy it in order to listen to it, but I'm not sure that's legally sound, particularly given that AFAICS, the only way in which they publish that URL is in the context of the specific player on their website.

(Now, as a publicly-owned broadcaster, the CBC should be streaming its content in a way that allows anyone - or anyone in Canada, anyway - to access it how they choose; but that's a somewhat separate question.)


I think that would be fine. It's the exact same thing as iTunes or WMP.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: