> "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it".
That or split the community and spend thousands and thousands of man hours, coding, planning, talking about, arguing on HN over a print statement vs function. I'll take a 2nd function over it any day.
> The best things about python packages is they can be updated independently of the standard library that ships with Python.
That is a separate issue. I was just responding to you saying how adding flask or some web framework or client would break code. And I think we can agree that adding a module won't break existing code if it is not using, wouldn't you agree? Now ok, maybe adding something like that is a bad idea as you said, as it will become ossified and kind of stuck (including bugs and warts). Ok, sorry that was a bad example. I was just trying to think if big enough thing that _would_ have justified switching to a new version.
> You mean Jython? That's a silly comparison.
Sorry Jython. Why is it silly? If the effort put into PyPy combined with effort put into Python 3 transition (including time wasted arguing about it, porting, designing shaming websites "check out these unported Python 2 projects") were put into it removing the GIL it would have probably worked.
> Not to mention PyPy is a very advanced project and it has taken years and years of development by people specialized in writing JIT compilers (remember Psyco for Python 2.5?) to get PyPy to where it is now
Yes, I know I was using Psyco back in the day and every time I was using (and I did measure and it did improve the speed quite a bit) I was think why the heck is this not in the base distro?
Remember, I didn't say this hypothetical "better" Python 3 had to have yet another JIT separate from Psyco, Jython, PyPy, Unladen Swallow (LLVM). It could have been any one of those. And that would have been a worthy enough carrot to get people more excited. The port would have taken less time, with less drama.
I know it is hard but I didn't say any of those would be easy. It is in fact kind of hard to beat Python 2 (or rather to offer something a lot more compelling to justify switching to it).
By implication here, not switching to 3 would have been a valid step as far as I see.
That or split the community and spend thousands and thousands of man hours, coding, planning, talking about, arguing on HN over a print statement vs function. I'll take a 2nd function over it any day.
> The best things about python packages is they can be updated independently of the standard library that ships with Python.
That is a separate issue. I was just responding to you saying how adding flask or some web framework or client would break code. And I think we can agree that adding a module won't break existing code if it is not using, wouldn't you agree? Now ok, maybe adding something like that is a bad idea as you said, as it will become ossified and kind of stuck (including bugs and warts). Ok, sorry that was a bad example. I was just trying to think if big enough thing that _would_ have justified switching to a new version.
> You mean Jython? That's a silly comparison.
Sorry Jython. Why is it silly? If the effort put into PyPy combined with effort put into Python 3 transition (including time wasted arguing about it, porting, designing shaming websites "check out these unported Python 2 projects") were put into it removing the GIL it would have probably worked.
> Not to mention PyPy is a very advanced project and it has taken years and years of development by people specialized in writing JIT compilers (remember Psyco for Python 2.5?) to get PyPy to where it is now
Yes, I know I was using Psyco back in the day and every time I was using (and I did measure and it did improve the speed quite a bit) I was think why the heck is this not in the base distro?
Remember, I didn't say this hypothetical "better" Python 3 had to have yet another JIT separate from Psyco, Jython, PyPy, Unladen Swallow (LLVM). It could have been any one of those. And that would have been a worthy enough carrot to get people more excited. The port would have taken less time, with less drama.
> 1. https://wiki.python.org/moin/GlobalInterpreterLock
I know it is hard but I didn't say any of those would be easy. It is in fact kind of hard to beat Python 2 (or rather to offer something a lot more compelling to justify switching to it).
By implication here, not switching to 3 would have been a valid step as far as I see.