I can think of one use case where Flash still makes sense: Live video
A lot of people seemed to be surprised this is the case but tell me what single live streaming protocol is supported across all browsers without a plugin?
With Flash you can stream HLS (HTTP Live Streaming) to a Flash player in full browsers while just directly loading the same HLS playlist in mobile browsers via native players (iOS / Android).
This means you can deliver live streaming over the same audio/video codec (H.264/AAC) and over the same protocol (HLS). This vastly simplifies your streaming infrastructure and removes the need for transcoding on the server, unless you just want to create different qualities for adaptive bitrate streaming.
It would be nice if "desktop" browsers all supported HLS and H.264/AAC natively, that would be a real Flash killer.
You're right, live video without Flash is not nearly as advanced. However, there are several options that work right now:
- Plain old HTTP WebM stream. Only one resolution, but it works.
- MPEG-DASH - very similar to HLS, but implementable in Javascript via MSE APIs in browsers today.
- WebRTC - low latency streaming, in some cases it might make sense to use this over MPEG-DASH even for one-to-many streaming cases, like interactive lectures and the like.
Unfortunately several browsers lag behind in implementing the required APIs, so this does not solve all problems yet. But the problem isn't creating any new protocols, it's just getting adoption.
As for H.264, it's mostly a solved problem with hardware decoders and OpenH264 (currently not used for <video> playback, but could be). AAC, however, costs more to license and is much more problematic, so there will always be some browser vendors that don't ship it.
A lot of advertising networks use it to deliver advertisements. Whether it is simple inertia at this point, or because the networks can get a better fingerprint using flash, I don't know.
Also, it used to be the case that Flash had better DRM controls on it, but I'm pretty sure that reason is no longer the case since Encrypted Media Extensions got rolled out.
However, that doesn't explain why Facebook's on-site video player uses Flash.
The advertising networks being the last to use it is something that will make Flash's implosion very quick and sudden, IMO.
If uninstalling flash only causes you to miss out on ads, it makes uninstalling flash that much more attractive. Which makes the advertisers want to get off flash that much sooner.
It needs probably just one or two more use cases to disappear (Facebook video is one of them), and its final death will be quite quick.
Which is what makes these exploits so insidious: sneak an infected advertisement onto one network, even briefly, and you're now targeting who knows how many Internet users visiting legitimate, trusted websites.
Honestly, one of the biggest reasons to run an ad blocker is the significantly reduced attack surface.
YouTube's Flash player still works a lot better than the HTML5 one. Their HTML5 one desynchs the audio occasionally, cuts off the audio before the video ends, doesn't support a real right click -> copy video URL (all it can do is give a popup with the URL), and still has other small bugs. The Flash one has none of these problems.
It seems to be the case in general for most sites that offer HTML5 alternatives that the Flash version is much more solid. Maybe using HTML5 video in these domains is inherently error-prone, maybe it isn't, but in practice it almost always gets screwed up.
Plus people still use flash games and sites like Newgrounds.
YouTube's HTML5 video player has always been a shit-show, and I don't understand why. Vimeo has had an excellent HTML5 video player for many years, and there's at least a few third-party HTML5 video players that are pretty good as well.
Are you sure you're actually using the HTML5 player? I am being 100% serious when I say I've never met someone before who thinks YouTube's HTML5 player is good.
Among the various issues I've seen:
* Sometimes refuses to play anything, without showing any errors, requiring a reload of the page.
* Occasional poor performance.
* Audio/video desynchronization
* Scrubbing the video often causes it to get stuck, refusing to play, until I scrub it again
* Videos often take longer to start playing than with the flash player.
* Fullscreen is sometimes broken
* Switching from regular mode to "theater" mode sometimes leaves the video playing in its original size, anchored to the corner of the now-larger black area that it should be playing in.
I think it's gotten a little better recently (i.e. I see issues less often), but it's still far from great.
And before you ask, I've seen these issues in both Safari and Chrome.
Yes, I'm using the HTML5 player. This is easily verified by clicking the right mouse button on the video and seeing the HTML5 context menu. I have no problems with it at all and it's easily superior to the Flash player in performance and resource usage. It also seamlessly plays 1080p 60FPS video without any issues.
As for the issues you're experiencing - are you sure you have GPU acceleration turned on?
I'm using Chrome and CPU usage is only 45-50% for perfect 1080p 60FPS playback.
All such comments about not working flash player on youtube make me think of some kind of adobe shills maybe? Or PEBCK. Unless you have some super lame vidoe card I do not see how one can not make HTML5 player work. My experience:
HTML5 player works really well on youtube, been using it for at least a year (well possibly +- couple months) exclusively. No problems after configuration, machine is quite old q6600 cpu that is 5-6 years old and GF220, which is also quite old now. Full hd video ON Linux (!), Firefox no problems (though possibly just 30fps, not sure if I ever try 60fps). And people complain all over the place about HTML5 youtube on Linux.
Fine. I cannot argue about _your_ experience. _My_ experience is different. One of my computers is really old Pentium M laptop (9y old) and HTML5 barely works at 240p. Not only that, it has limited set of resolutions at the first place. Flash works just fine 480p resolution. It looks also much better at lower bitrates (to _my_ taste) than HTML5 in Firefox
> make me think of some kind of adobe shills maybe
It was far less personal than that, I generaly only lurk on HN, but your post one that struck a nerve finaly, after many similar posts here and in /..
Also 9 year old is quite a frac cry from your initial post of "(3y+) machines", 9 year old machine almost guaranteed has absolutely no support in hardware for modern codecs. So no wonder has strong limitations on resolution. Still flash working better than HTML5 players is still suspicious to me, I still believe with correct configuration reverse should be true, as flash is basically just another layer in between screen and bits on the net. Though possibly not applicable in all cases.
9y old machines is what many people (not gamers, enthusiasts etc.) have; 3+ y old include underpowered Celeron 847, AMDs (way weaker than your monstrous Q6600) and even on these machines Flash works better. _My_ _actual_ observations.
> Still flash working better than HTML5 players is still suspicious to me,
Do you write programs for life or what? It is not a problem with HTML5 players, it a problem the way they are written. Flash is an older product, with better support of legacy or underpowered products.
> I still believe with correct configuration reverse should be true
Yes, the correct configuration is "more powerful CPU".
I am not the person you are replying to but I do not have flash installed on my system. I have to do an occasional reload but I've never had to do anything else you have mentioned.
For reference, I use chromium (not chrome) on Linux (which does not come with flash bundled).
This is like asking why people still use cash when there are so many other easier to use & manage payment options. The simple answer is there are far too many edge cases where it's still required - any single one doesn't sound like a good answer.
I think the truth is, technology that supplants it is still not there yet. Sockets, sound, video...
And there's still a truckload of fun games available only in flash form, which makes flash relevant even if the number of new stuff coming out in it dwindles.
Twitch. Which happens to amuse me, which I like to waste time. But .. they seem unwilling to move away from Flash (the only thing I found was a ~3 year old support thread that wants to .. support HLS. Yay. Not that's not helpful)
Twitch without Flash has been available for a while now, if you were willing to use VLC + an IRC client. Twitch HTML5 chat went live on June 30th, HLS was prior to that.
VLC for HLS I assume (and I only stumbled upon the '/hls' suffix for any url to support that by accident/in that ticket, which still doesn't seem to be officially closed).
IRC for chat is absolutely new to me and would actually be quite nice..
Their latest controller (v4?) removed the Flash requirement for both video (playback) and main (maps) IIRC. Do they still have leftover areas that require Flash?
ubnt has a habit of not finishing what they start. AirControl 2 is not finished and they're talking about Aircontrol 3. Airvision has been rewritten 3 times in 3 years.
For all I know they're doing Unifi 5 in pure flash. I wouldn't be surprised.
Unifi 3.x requires flash to manage devices on a map. It's the main screen you see when you log in.
Unifi 4.x is still beta and I'm not sure if it still requires flash (Though for Ubnt stable means beta, beta means alpha, alpha is unlikely to even run.)
Last I checked AirControl did too (managing many AirOS devices)
In Safari on OS X, Facebook does use the native <video> player.
I'm guessing that Facebook encodes video h264 which isn't natively supported in Firefox; rather it relies on support in the operating system. I'm not sure if Chrome on Linux supports h264, however since Chrome also includes its own Flash player I guess that Facebook may be using their own flash player anyway.
Pretty sure there are some settings you need to enable in about:config to get H264 working in Firefox (assuming you have the right gstreamer stuff installed).
